Interview: The Imitation Game‘s Writer Graham Moore and Director Morten Tyldum

TheImitationGame-BCpair 3During World War II, British mathematician Alan Turing and a secret team of cryptologists eventually succeeded in using an early electronic computing machine to crack the seemingly uncrackable German Enigma machine code and help bring the war to a swifter close.

In 1952, Turing, his immeasurable contribution to the British war effort still a state secret, was arrested and charged with gross indecency under Britain’s laws against homosexuality.

It is that tragic juxtaposition of Turing’s professional and private life that has made him a posthumous hero to both computer scientists as well as gay-rights activists. It’s also what drew young screenwriter Graham Moore to Turing’s story.

Moore’s script for The Imitation Game is based on Andrew Hodges’ book Alan Turing: The Enigma, and takes its name from the famous Turing test that measures how well an artificial intelligence can mimic human thought and behavior–an especially resonant notion for Turing, who not only had to mask his sexuality, but is suspected by some to have been somewhere on the autism spectrum.

Sliding back and forth in time between Turing’s war experiences, his teen years in school, and his questioning by police in 1952, The Imitation Game is directed by Norwegian filmmaker Morten Tyldum (Headhunters) and stars Benedict Cumberbatch in what is sure to be an Oscar-nominated performance. The film also stars Keira Knightley, Matthew Goode, Mark Strong, and Charles Dance.

Another writer and I sat down in Chicago a few weeks ago with both writer Graham Moore and director Morten Tyldum about their film and both its historical and human subjects.

The Imitation Game is currently playing in select theaters and will be expanding wider in coming weeks.

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csm_The_Imitation_Game_ac48e5e39eGraham, how did you end up writing this biopic?

Graham Moore: In a lot of ways, I wanted to write about Alan Turing my entire life. I was a huge computer nerd when I was a teenager; I went to Space Camp and computer programming camp. My parents were like, “Who are you, where’d you come from, who are your real parents?”

Among nerdy awkward computer-y teenagers, Alan Turing is sort of this patron saint. He is this tremendous inspirational symbol of this sort of secret queer history of the Second World War, the secret history of computer science that has been whitewashed out of the official record.

I always wanted to write about him, and then I actually met our producers Nora Grossman and Peter Heslop randomly at a party one day after I had moved to LA and become a writer. I heard Nora talking in the kitchen, saying, “Oh, I just optioned this book,” and I asked what was it about, and she said, “this mathematician, you’ve never heard of him… “ and I said, “I know a little bit about math, who is it? and she said, “Alan Turing,” and I instantly pounced on her and began this totally insufferable twenty minute monologue. “Oh my god, I know everything about Alan Turing, please let me do this, I’ll do this for free” and so on. And she started backing away from me like, “Who is this psycho, who invited him?” They brought me on, and we started working on the screenplay, and that screenplay found its way to Mr. Morten Tyldum.

Was this your first major screenplay?

Moore: It was not the first one that I’ve written, but it is the first one to be produced. It was relatively early, and it was the first one that I had gotten really any notice in the industry. I would call my agents and say, “Hey I am going to write this story about a gay mathematician in the 1940s,” and they were like, “No, you’re not,” that it was career suicide, or that no one would make the story. But I just think it’s the most important story, and it needs to be told and it needs to be told on screen. We were so grateful after we had a couple drafts and would show it to people, and we got the movie made, which has been tremendous.

How much of the math covered in the film did you guys personally understand?

Morten Tyldum: We definitely had experts. I thought I was good at math… but… [laughs]

TheImitationGame_1106_CourtesyTheWeinsteinCompany.jpg.644x433_q100

Moore: Well, compared to Alan Turing …

Tyldum: That’s the thing, that it is incredibly complicated. I wanted to try and understand how the machine worked. So we had this lecture, and everybody who was going to explain the machine had panic in their eyes, because it’s so complicated. When they started to explain it, that panic went over to us, and me and Benedict [Cumberbatch] looked at each other like, “Holy shit…” You get real lost.

I think Alan Turing is as important as a philosopher as a mathematician in many ways. His ideas about what it means to think, what it means to be alive. He was obsessive about artificial intelligence and artificial life—I find those ideas a lot easier to grasp onto. He was a great humanitarian. Those ideas are very fascinating to me.

It’s one thing to understand it, but the other challenge is that you are trying to be accurate to the process of cracking Enigma, but at the same time make it into a thrilling, engaging scene. But the things that are in the movie are true. Enigma was un-crackable—it was brilliant, so you have to find the human flaw in the system. You have to lock onto that. That is Turing’s genius.

How does the story of Turing and his fellow code breakers reflect your own experience in making this movie?

Moore: When we were making the movie we were like this band of obsessives, very committed people freezing half-to-death in the south of England.

Tyldum: It was a small budget movie, and I think it was very relatable. We had this tremendous time pressure—we shot the whole thing in eight weeks. It became this very tight-knit family that was on a mission, because everyone wanted to do justice to this man. Everyone was super-prepared, and we had all of these phenomenal actors who wanted to come on board. They were super-dedicated, and everyone wanted the other to shine, even if they were off-camera doing off-camera acting—they really delivered great performances.

THE IMITATION GAMEHow did you approach the suggestions that Turing was Autistic to some degree?

Tyldum: Benedict made a very deliberate choice not to act it that way. It can be read as a type of autism, but what does that mean? First of all, we didn’t want to put a label on it because that goes against everything the movie is trying to celebrate. He was unique, and because he was unique, he was able to think unique ideas and unique thoughts that nobody else had.

Moore: Anytime you diagnose someone after the fact, it’s murky, and we didn’t want to do that. But at the same time, we heard all of these famous stories from people in Bletchley Park where he’d be in the middle of a conversation and someone said something that he already knew, he would just turn around and walk away. He was only engaged in conversations to the point that someone was giving him information—he has this voracious appetite for information. He was just a completely unique individual as Morten said; I think that’s what we were going for.

Tyldum: He was hard to work with, but he also came with a sense of humor. There are things that I wish we could have gotten in the movie, like that he was allergic to pollen. He liked to bike around with a gas mask on. He was odd, but he didn’t care.

Moore: The thing with the bike makes me think that he had this mind that was constantly moving, constantly inventing stuff, and that’s what Benedict did such a wonderful job at, showing this mind that’s going so much faster than his mouth could ever express. I remember there was something that Benedict said on day one of rehearsals. “I don’t think Alan Turing had Asperger’s; I think that he’s physically capable of understanding the thoughts of feelings of other people, I just think his mind is on something more important, he’s just thinking of something else.” But then when he gets to the more tender scenes with Joan [Knightley], when he does latch on emotionally, he is passionate and emotional and sweet and caring. It’s this full range of emotional expression.

Turing-arrestedThis is a very British story, both in its triumphs and its tragedy, but Graham, you’re American, Morten, you’re Norwegian.  Was it a disadvantage or liberating to not be British? 

Tyldum: It’s a huge responsibility. There’s part of it which is challenging because you have to really do your research, and you have people saying, “how open with emotion will he be?” because they’re British, and it’s the 1940s. And at the same time it’s nice to be an outsider, because the movie is about outsiders looking in. I think being outsiders ourselves looking in actually helps to clarify that point.

We didn’t want to be bogged down by a dusty history lesson, which it easily could have been. It could have sort of embraced the Britishness of it, but that would have been too much; it would have been insanely boring. [Laughs] I think we gave it a spark that liberated it a bit, and hopefully that will give it a wider audience.

You have that obligation to be true to what happened, which we were. And at the same time, we have an obligation to really spread his legacy wide. He deserves a big audience; the world needs to know what he did and his staggering achievements. It was important for us to have humor in it and make it a thrilling story.

We wanted to tell the story as a mystery: Who is Alan Turing? Because that’s how it is for most people, how it was for me when I came to this project. We wanted it to be a puzzle, as he was obsessed with puzzles—so you puzzle him together.

How did you both balance Alan’s personal journey with the story of how his work with others changed the course of the war?

Imitation-Game-2-Vogue-31Oct14-pr_bMoore: I think one of the things from the beginning of the process of working on it that really felt like it unlocked the story for me, felt to be the core of the story for me, was this concept of the imitation game, and the idea that in the imitation game, you have this amazing connection and inspiration between his very extremely complicated and difficult mathematical and theoretical and cryptographic work and his personal struggle.

The idea of the imitation game as he proposed it is we are only what we can convince what we are; we are human to the degree that we can convince someone else that we are human. For a statement like that to come from a closeted gay man in Britain in the 1950s is remarkable.

And that statement is the underpinning of his other cryptographical and computational work, for his computer science and AI work, and it’s a statement that I think could only have been made by a closeted gay man. I think only a man going through that could see the world in such a different way, and have such a new attitude on it. And that linking of the personal of the mathematic and cryptographic was the core for both of us.

In regards to the devastating end of Turing, what were you thinking was most important when it came to landing the story on a certain note, but dramatically respect it?

The-Imitation-Game-Lenigma-di-un-genio-primo-poster-italiano-del-biopic-con-Benedict-Cumberbatch-2Moore: Yeah, the final scene between Alan and Joan was the scene we did the most number of drafts of; I think we did 10 or 20 drafts of that. Because we knew what we were building towards, and we knew that Alan Turing’s story has a tragic end.

And we knew that we wanted to approach that sensitively and delicately and portray what happened to him and the tragedy of that; we really wanted to watch this vibrant, brilliant mind slowly be extinguished under this terrible medical treatment, under societal pressures and the public shaming that happened to him.

Tyldum: And the key thing is we wanted to make a scene where Joan tells him what we ourselves today want to tell him on his last day. That is for me the core of that scene—if somebody could sit down and say those words to him, which nobody did. “This is what you did.”

Interview: Foxcatcher Director Bennett Miller

MV5BMTQ2MjQxNjYxOV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwMzIwODUxMzE@._V1_SX640_SY720_Director Bennett Miller has been collecting praise for his smart, restrained film-making since his debut documentary The Cruise in 1998, through his Oscar-nominated Capote in 2005, and 2011’s Moneyball.

Miller’s latest film, Foxcatcher (written by E. Max Frye and Capote writer Dan Futterman) is yet another look at real-life characters, this time the Olympic-medal-winning wrestlers, brothers Mark (Channing Tatum) and Dave Schultz (Mark Ruffalo) and their tragic relationship with John du Pont (Steve Carell), a member of the wealthy du Pont family and a fanatical financial supporter of U.S. Olympic wrestling. Both Schultz brothers and other wrestlers lived on du Pont’s Pennsylvania Foxcatcher farm while training for the 1988 Seoul Olympics.

Quietly, broodingly examining themes like the subculture and psychological currents of wrestling; Reagan-era patriotism among the super-rich; how ambition, obsession, and ego fuel the American Dream; and even the power of guns and the military industrial complex in our nation’s psyche, the film is brilliant, one of the best of the year. And while you’ll hear a lot about Carell’s astounding performance and physical transformation, Tatum and especially Ruffalo both also completely vanish inside their characters, in part thanks to Miller’s nuanced, minimalist approach.

Miller is one of my favorite directors working today, so I was thrilled when I and another writer got to sit down with him in Chicago a few weeks ago to talk about Foxcatcher and his approach to film making and storytelling.

Foxcatcher opens today nationwide.

(Spoiler warning: The following interview contains references to the film’s conclusion, based on the real events of 1996.)

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4a4d05eafce65cbc6dd983f9cffbc3a962e378b1All your films have centered on real people, real stories. What draws you to a subject?

Bennett Miller: You’d think I’d have a stock answer by this point, but I really don’t. Now that I’ve made four films, I can look back and begin to notice patterns, but going into a project I never think about that.

Looking back I’d say I’m attracted to outsider characters. I’m attracted to people who are in worlds where they do not belong, people from different worlds trying to operate together. Every one of my films has a person where he does not really belong with some great ambition. That only occurred to me recently when someone pointed it out. I’m attracted to these outsider characters.

What was it about the world of wrestling that caught your attention?

Miller: Just that it’s a weirdo sport, it’s a subculture. People who wrestle belong to a sect. I knew nothing about wrestling, I don’t know anybody who wrestles, and it just seemed like a weird, odd thing. I was of course drawn in by the story, the oddity of one of the wealthiest men in America having this sect move onto his property with some declarative goal, some huge, patriotic ambition, and it ending tragically, that was all just too much to resist.

WireAP_451032a832da43ea820f9bb936a2b228_16x9_992Of course, once I started researching and getting to know about wrestling, I realized that it’s an amazing sport, and I began to understand why it’s not a popular sport, and I think it has something to do with the fact that it’s hard to understand and appreciate.

It’s not like boxing where it’s pretty clear what’s going on, not that boxing doesn’t have its nuances. It’s really more like chess, and you have to be trained to grasp what’s going on to appreciate the sport, but you also need to learn about the fraternity and the community of wrestlers and the common virtues that they share, the absence of material reward.

You’re not going to get rich or famous off wrestling, period. Therefore the reasons to pursue this, possibly the most difficult sport in the world, have to be for intrinsic values of it, and that’s fascinating. Who does that? Not for the extrinsic award, which is more the interest of someone like du Pont, who is just going to take this sport of fraternity and virtue and try to exploit it for his own personal gain.

DuPont feels like a collector, a dilettante buying his way in.

Miller: It’s very similar to what his mother did. She had her stable of horses, and he had his stable of wrestlers, and they both compete and win ribbons.

What I love about the film is that it starts out examining the mysterious motivations behind this event, but in the end these characters feel even more unknowable to us.

foxcatcher-cannes-2014-4Miller: I do think about learning without concluding. The film doesn’t tell a story so much as it observes a story, and I think there is a temptation to make conclusions along the way, to put a point on things, and this is not that.

The film restrains itself from simplifying with conclusions, good or evil, with labels. The moment you make a conclusion about something, by definition you’ve stopped thinking.

Everything that we might know about these themes that are woven throughout this story, from class and wealth and entitlement… I didn’t want to just regurgitate an attitude about any of these things, but to look at where the rubber hits the road with these classes, and try to observe in an unflinching way something that isn’t always easy to look at. Because we want to get there and have that opinion about it, but my feeling is that if you can discipline yourself to not react like that and to look past things, then there are discoveries to be made that are otherwise obscured by the polarizing impulses.

When researching all the lurid and sensationalist stuff that was written in the media about this story 18 years ago, how did you sift out the human connection?

foxcatcher-bandireMiller: It was from talking to everybody at length, over long stretches of time. Conversations that began eight years ago and continued through the edit, with Mark Schultz, with Nancy Schultz, with Nancy’s kids, with the police who worked on the estate, with the son of John’s mother’s chauffeur who was paid to be John’s friend, with the many, many wrestlers who were down at Foxcatcher farms, who were close to Dave.

Just dozens of people, and just cultivating relationships with all of these people. At any moment I could just call them up and in certain cases, meet. I flew around going wrestling tournaments where all these guys meet.

Carell and Ruffalo are so unbelievably good, but what struck you about Channing Tatum, who’s also fantastic, that made you want him as your lead?

Miller: I offered him the part to him eight years ago after seeing A Guide to Recognizing Your Saints. I offered him the part before there was a script. I saw that film, and I said, “Holy shit. This guy is electric, and dangerous, and dangerous in the way he doesn’t even realize himself, and he’s a fully realized character, who can’t possibly understand how the world is seeing him.” And it was a role that he was playing that was really not similar to Channing at all. This is eight years ago, out of the gate. He really had an extraordinary performance in that film, and physicality. I offered him the part then.

It took six years to get to day one of principal photography on this film, and in that time, other roles came along, and his career had taken a totally different path. But to be honest I didn’t really watch much of those films, but I was convinced that whatever that was in A Guide to Recognizing Your Saints, I’m sure it’s still there.

FOXCATCHERAnd when it was time to get the film going again and I revisited it with him, his level of commitment, seriousness, and intelligence about it was all very convincing. All of those other roles were just way-off in my periphery, I didn’t even look at it.

Mark is the center of the film, and yet he is more withdrawn and silent than Dave and John, on whom the story eventually turns. Was that a challenge?

Miller: It seemed sort of, in a way, obvious. It would have been possible to have made this film without Mark Schultz at all, it could have simply been the Dave Schultz and John du Pont story. In fact many involved with the story itself were surprised that Mark was even featured in the movie at all, much less the center of it.

But as I researched the story, it just seemed clear that this relationship between du Pont and Mark, followed by du Pont and Dave, followed by what happened, was the story. And understanding these characters through the Mark and du Pont relationship seemed to make sense. And the fact that he is animalistic and not communicative is also part of the film, it’s also part of the point, it’s another theme in the movie of male non-communication.

FRANCE-ENTERTAINMENT-CANNES-FILM-FESTIVALOne of Foxcatcher’s key creative forces is Megan Ellison, producer of True Grit, Killing Them Softly, Zero Dark Thirty, Spring Breakers, Her, American Hustle, and The Master. Was her influence on Foxcatcher different from your previous collaborations with producers?

Miller: When you work with Megan, there’s no possibility of being at odds with competing interests. If you’re working in film, you have to be financed, which means that there is a collaboration with an entity that has separate interests. Your interests cannot be identical.

Everybody wants a great movie, but that’s not the whole of it. Nobody wants to lose money, but with Megan—she doesn’t want to lose money either—but once she commits to something, the governing principle comes from her desire for it to be everything that it’s meant to be. That’s it.

We were meant to release this movie last year, and we needed a few more months. I think we were all prepared to bear down and get it done, and it was Megan who made the decision that the film would benefit, despite some additional expenses, from more time to gestate. That is the mark of a producer. She actually led that. It also can be crazy-making if the competing interests of those who have a financial stake in the film are broadcasting their anxiety over creative decisions. Doesn’t mean you’re gonna give in, but I think the process is truly exceptional with Megan because your interests are the same.

Did the film change during that extra post-production time?

FOXCATCHERMiller: The way I make all of my films so far has been very similar in that it’s a process of experiment and discovery from beginning until end, and you’ve got three major periods to get it right: In the conception with development and writing, the shooting, and post-production.

Throughout all three stages, in the engineering of the film, every beat is constantly being challenged and questioned, but the initial conception of the film, the character and the spirit of it, I think remained consistent.

But how it materialized, and how it was to incarnate, is what is explored and discovered. But it really did begin with that feeling that you have for a film when you walk out of it. That’s what you get possessed with, and you’re looking for a way for that to materialize. The whole process remains fluid from beginning to end. It’s really constantly questioning, blowing it up, putting it back together.

In terms of film making, style, and storytelling, your films always seem to pull back from giving the audience what it wants or expects. Is that something you’re very conscious of and working towards?

Miller: Yeah, without a doubt. The austere style that observes but not tell. I think the other thing is boring, I really do. I don’t need to see one more romanticized version of any story ever for the rest of my life, I really don’t. I don’t need those tingly feelings. I think that we can all do with a healthy dose of disillusionment. Disillusionment isn’t a bad thing, it means enlightenment.

FOXCATCHEREntertainment is entertainment, and there is absolutely a value and a place for it, and I don’t condemn any of it, but for me, personally, what I find satisfying is to be challenged and to see something that’s provocative and truthful and is not putting me on and pushing my buttons, selling me some romanticized shtick that makes me feel sweet and tingly about something.

This is not the main reason or the motivation for this story, but a part of the added interest for me that it was a story that was covered by the media. The news trucks raced down to Du Pont’s mansion, and there were also a couple of books written about it. And the version that does enter into the airwaves has a particular nature to it. It is a sensational thing that we can consume like potato chips.

But when I started researching and flying around and meeting everybody who had anything to do with the story, I discovered, A) the aspects of the story that were completely neglected in any coverage of it, and B) the things that really only cinema can convey. Cinema can shine a light where no other medium can, and so it’s not just the story or the facts, but it’s a three-dimensional complex of art forms that can realize a story.

chilling-first-trailer-for-foxcatcher-with-steve-carell-3I’m thinking of something that one of Dave Schultz’s friends said to me yesterday at a screening at Philadelphia with Dave Schultz’s widow and the prosecutors and many of the wrestlers who’d lived on the farm.

I started getting people’s responses from the movie, and one of Dave’s really close friends said to me that he was there the day of the shooting, and though he knew the story inside and out, for him the film made it more real than what happened, because cinema is experiential.

Interview: America the Beautiful 3 Director Darryl Roberts

ATB3Poster2-1149624495827MV5BMTUzNDQzOTE5OF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNjE2NTAzOA@@._V1_SY317_CR17,0,214,317_AL_A couple years ago I spoke with local Chicago documentary film maker Darryl Roberts about his film America the Beautiful 2: The Thin Commandments, the second in his ongoing series about our modern culture’s ideas of and obsession with beauty and our sometimes warped self-images.

Roberts’ latest documentary is America the Beautiful 3: The Sexualization of Our Youth. The film examines the effect Internet pornography and sexualized advertising and marketing, as well as things like changing standards of sexual content on television and the growing popularity of beauty pageants for the very young have on the still immature minds and psyches of the younger generation, including what Roberts sees as a rise in sexual assault, teen pregnancy, and depression and suicide.

I sat down with Roberts in Chicago last week to talk about America the Beautiful 3: The Sexualization of Our Youth. I think his new film raises serious concerns and questions that we as a society should be thinking about. However, I have issues with some of his film’s connections and conclusions, several of which I brought up with him in our interview below. (One point I did not have time to ask him about was a segment of the film that examines and praises the work of the Parents Television Council.)

America the Beautiful 3: The Sexualization of Our Youth is playing at select theaters across the country. Screening dates and details can be found at the film’s website.

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Pageant-Girls-p193o8rbgmsf21pll1t781oe7j6pYour first two films were about our societal standards of beauty and our obsession with dieting. How do you chose your topics and what brought you to this new one?

Darryl Roberts: I talk to and listen to a lot of young people about what’s affecting them. Either I look and see or they tell me through a newsletter I send out to several thousands of high school and college students. They respond and I hear different issues.

This one was weird. It came from a different source. I was thinking about the celebrity culture, Rhianna, Beyonce, Kim Kardashian, and I thought it must be tough being a kid today in this sexualized world that’s so different from when I was growing up. And that got me thinking about my best friend from childhood, Saveen. So I searched for him on the Internet and found out he’s a registered sex offender.

That started the process and sent my mind in a certain direction. I found the American Psychological Association report “The Sexualization of Girls.” It talked about how the amount of sexualized advertising is creating a mental health crisis among young girls. From there, I knew this would be the topic of this film.

I’m fascinated by the effect, good or bad, that the Internet, social media, and increasing online interaction is having on us as a society, especially on the next generation. But when it comes to pornography, what do you feel is the difference for today’s younger generation? Is it amount, or the type, or its availability?

darryl-robertsRoberts: I can speak from my own personal experience. When I was 15, I was strung out on pornography. Every two or three weeks I’d be fortunate enough to be home at the right time to sneak the Playboy out from under my father’s bed. You couldn’t buy Hustler, Penthouse, or Playboy in a store—they had wrappers around them.

When I was 16, I had a mustache and beard, so I could get into an X-rated movie theater at State and Lake, called the Shangri-la. But porn then was the equivalent of a Playboy movie now. I perceived it as loving and all it made me want to do is have sex with my girlfriend.

But today it’s not just the accessibility, but the “gonzo” porn. It makes you not respect women and look at them as if they’re not human. That’s the difference.

So you feel it’s an overload, a lack of self-imposed moderation in our culture today? Your film raises some very disturbing questions about the effect of pornography on an immature brain.

Roberts: When you talk about overload and all of it, what I’ve come to believe the answer is what we don’t have in America, which makes us different from Europe and Canada. You don’t see those stats with STDs and teen pregnancy, I think it’s because we’re based on this puritanical foundation. Adults and parents don’t have a clue as to what it means to have a healthy sexuality.

A teenager today is being overloaded, coming across those images with their hormones raging. They’re searching, and they don’t have a parent who can step in and lay a foundation as to what it means to have a healthy sexuality. When you search, you’re going to find something.

AR-141129942.jpg&updated=201411192102&maxw=1024&maxh=1024Imagine if, when you’re 11, you’re taught what it means to have a healthy sexuality. Then you have a personal filter with which to gage everything you see. Then some of this porn won’t be okay with you, it won’t fit into the construct of your values system. That’s how I think young kids could get through the overload and cope, but it’s not happening.

But even though the media, sexual, and pornographic landscape is so very, very different for teens today, couldn’t we also ask if today’s youth, having grown up on the Internet, are better at processing and putting it all in perspective?

Yes, some of the people in your film appear to be cautionary tales about warped perspectives, but those sorts of messed-up people have always been around. Young wanna-be starlets going to Hollywood to be movie stars and ending up doing porn isn’t a new tale. On the more positive side, some of the more-activism-minded young people you talk to in the film are incredibly aware and articulate for 12-year-olds.

Roberts: I felt exactly like you, but as I continued to think about it… and I thought what has gone wrong in our society where 12-year-old girls have to be worried about raising money for rape awareness. That shouldn’t even be in her mind.

But can’t that also be seen as positive and empowering, that young people today talk about these issues, address them, and work to fight them? I just feel like every single older generation in history has freaked out about the things the younger generation knows and has to cope with. Maybe this is a rare case of me being Pollyanna-ish, but I want to believe that the next generation is smarter and more socially enlightened about things like positive sexuality versus negative objectification and abuse. And I don’t think we can say just yet, after only 10-15 years of the Internet and social media if the negative effects are greater than the new positive effects.

america-the-beautiful-3-cali-linstrom1Roberts: I see it so clearly now, the Internet is making them less communicative with each other. For them now, texting and Facebook is like when we were growing up and meeting at a coffee shop. Their definition of a friend is electronic now, which I think makes them emotionally more distant. And think about where that’s going to keep going over the next 30 years.

I absolutely agree that humans need real, in-person interaction, that things like reading body language and learning social skills are important. But I also feel that the next generations will slowly figure that out and adjust.

Roberts: I think we’re screwed. I’m around college students all the time, and I don’t see them doing any of this soul-searching. Because our culture devalues aging, they assume their way is how it should be and our way is just old.

Oh come on, we all felt that way about adults 30 years ago when we were in our teens and 20s.

Roberts: That’s true [laughs]

I always worry when I catch myself saying and thinking along the nostalgic lines of, “Well, when I was a kid, things were nicer” and your film does do a lot of that from your own personal perspective. I know any documentary needs personal angles, personal stories to entertain and engage the viewer emotionally, but there is always the danger of drawing broader cultural conclusions from a handful of individual, emotional cautionary tales.

DarrylRoberts: As I get into these films, I really think about the past a lot because I’m seeing the struggles our youth are having. I like the personal stories.

But isn’t there a danger that we, being emotional beings, tend to believe things with our hearts instead of our heads? Emotional anecdotes feel more “true” to us than actual statistics, most of which tell us that our society, our civilization is actually improving with each generation.

Roberts: I look at statistics as being not devoid of reality, but devoid of what’s real. For example, there’s a statistic out now that teen pregnancies are on the decline. But what you haven’t heard is that statistic is going down because the age group 15 to 17 is becoming more abstinent, so on a weighted scale, they’re bringing it down. But what they don’t tell you is that from 11 to 14, that teen pregnancy statistic is rising. This is why I don’t really like statistics, I like to capture what’s really going on in a society.

My point is that as a society, I don’t think it’s wise to try to give the impression that what we’re doing, with safe sex, is working, when in reality, teen sex is rising in the youngest part of that demographic. That says something’s wrong. So the stat sounds positive, but when you look at reality, you see there’s a problem if the older people are doing it less, but the younger people are doing it more. That is a problem in our society.

But I always wonder if all the horrible things we see and hear about today on the Internet and 24-hour cable news, are they really worse than things were in the past  or are we just hearing about it more, more aware of it, and maybe people are more open about talking about and reporting once “silent” issues like harassment, rape, abuse, depression, etc.?

200568951-002Roberts: Let’s say you have 100 people who have the tendency to be a bully. Maybe in the past a third of them would actually have the balls to bully somebody. Now, thanks to the Internet, not 100 but 200 of them will just do it. Now you can be a coward and do it. Before you didn’t have a way to be a coward, you had to come out and do it. So cyber-bullying is really big now.

Maybe, but it seems as if in the past 5-10 years, everyone, including young people, have developed coping skills for dealing with online bullies, trolls, and assholes. Aren’t kids today learning and teaching and supporting each other more? Don’t many of them learn at a much younger age than we did to just shrug and ignore it?

Roberts: But some people kill themselves over it.

But depression and suicidal reactions to bullying existed before, we just didn’t hear about it all the time. People didn’t feel comfortable talking about their depression or their having been bullied.

2013-09-30-Cali2Roberts: You think it’s just the same and all the Internet is doing is letting us see it’s there? You don’t think it’s amplified?

I do think it’s amplified by the Internet—whether we’re talking about pornography or bullying–but I don’t know if that amplification is as great or as destructive as we folks in our 40s and 50s feel it is.

I know the Internet didn’t create any of this, it didn’t create bullying, or depression, or pornography. Maybe you’re right about the overload, maybe there will be long-term societal damage from that overload. But I feel like that alarm’s been raised by every older generation for eons.

And I think the next generation, the one growing up on the Internet from toddler-hood, is teaching itself to adapt to it and deal with it all in more perspective, talking about it, fighting it, and with more of a healthy dismissal of it, than maybe us middle-aged folks are.

Interstellar’s Quantum Love and Other Cosmic Horses#*t

MV5BMjIxNTU4MzY4MF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwMzM4ODI3MjE@._V1_SX640_SY720_Christopher Nolan loves his daughter very much. He would like you to know that his parental love for his daughter is super large. Larger than your love for anything you might love in your lesser, non-blockbuster-making ways.

Once a cold, calculating director, Christopher Nolan now believes in love, and his love for his daughter is so big that it transcends time and space. His love is so big that he had to make a film about it. But not just any film.

You see, Christopher Nolan’s love for his child is so immeasurably powerful and life-changingly epic that he had to make a really huge film. No mamby-pamby quiet meditation on life and parenthood. No naturalistic, small-scale capturing of the reality of human interaction. Leave that stuff to the independent whiners and pikers with their out-of-focus grainy navel-gazing.

Chris Nolan don’t play that game no more. Chris Nolan made The Dark Knight. Chris Nolan made Inception. So when he makes a movie that explores the power of the human heart by exploring the boundaries of human imagination, he does it on a grand scale.

The kind of awesome box-office-exploding film making that puts fat asses in extra-wide theater seats by the billions. The kind that cost $165 million dollars and is full of mind-blowing imagery and fist-pounding excitement and adventure. A film full of love. And exploration. And danger. And hope. And science stuff. That runs almost three hours and must be seen on the biggest screen possible.

To show us all how much he loves his daughter, Christopher Nolan had to make Interstellar. We will now take a moment of silence to thank Christopher Nolan for letting us pay for the privilege of experiencing (preferably on IMAX) his cinematic vision and its nearly-ungraspable humanistic scope and philosophical depth.

interThat done, we should probably also take a moment to point out that Christopher Nolan’s ode to the power of both familial and romantic love; his visually stunning paean to the American pioneer spirit of exploration and adventure; his plea for a renewed belief in the importance of scientific invention and understanding; his mind-blowing journey to the unseen space-time shores beyond our comprehension and imagination; is, per production dollar spent and running time endured, one of the most insultingly stupid affronts to your sense and sensibilities you’ll see this year. Cinematically, Interstellar is an impressive film. In every other respect—character, story, theme, ideas—it’s dumb as a bag of zero-gee space hammers.

But hey…. Christopher Nolan loves his daughter. Love! So shut up.

Interstellar is set in a near future where apparently bad stuff has happened that has returned America to its rural Eisenhower-era ways. Everything’s dusty. Crops have failed, so farmers are the future, or something like that, but the future is dying. The federal government seems to have been rolled back to the local level.

interstellar-03Energy is apparently in short supply for everything except reading lamps and pick-up trucks. For reasons unclear—other than the folksy charm of baseball being returned to its idealized halcyon roots of Mom, Apple Pie and, Chevrolet—the New York Yankees are now a traveling exhibition team that plays in small-town sandlots. In other words, it’s the sort of big-movie, pandering, easy-feel notion of America the way many social conservatives imagine it should be: rural, folksy, down-home, family-centric, and science-free.

Though he’ll eventually take us literally across the galaxy, Nolan isn’t interested in showing much of Earth other than a single small town, specifically the farm of an astronaut-turned-dirt-farmer-turned-back-to-astronaut with the very Right Stuffed name of Cooper (Matthew McConaughey, giving this great-looking cosmic cheese-platter payday exactly the amount of his attention and talent he knows it deserves).

Much to the chagrin of his loving, science-minded daughter Murph (Mackenzie Foy), Coop is enlisted by NASA (which operates in secret out of a hidden underground science bunker on a budget it apparently procured by taking back cans) to answer a mysterious call from presumably some higher alien intelligence, blast off with astronauts Brand (Anne Hathaway), Doyle (Wes Bentley), and Romilly (David Gyasi) and fly through a wormhole that’s been set up near Saturn (again presumably by the aliens).

interstellar-04Their mission is to find out what happened to previous NASA expeditions sent through the wormhole and hopefully find a new suitable future home to which they can migrate the human race and save it from extinction on the dying Earth. (Apparently, despite the global economic and environmental collapse, NASA had a whole bunch of interstellar rockets just laying around, like that box of old cellphones you keep under your desk.)

Meanwhile, left back on Earth, Murph grows up into Jessica Chastain, Space Scientist, while resenting Cooper for having left her. (He literally runs out the door, jumps in his truck, and drives off to Secret Underground NASA, as if he suddenly decided to go to Vegas for a weekend rather than across the galaxy for decades. Secret NASA seems to only be an hour or two’s drive from the Cooper Farm, but once he runs off, Coop can’t be bothered to go back and visit his family before blasting off into space.)

interstellar-15(Also, Coop’s wife died years earlier, as wives and moms so often do in these kinds of Spielbergian cinematic vision quests. Dead mom-wives make family members left behind seem so much more poignant and strong, so much deeper. And their absence also lets widowed Dad have a noble stirring in his spacesuit for a pretty, younger scientist-astronaut.)

Coop also has an older son, but Coop, the Nolans, and the film have very little use for him, other than as an embittered, narrow-minded, paranoid thematic prop to be deployed later for narrative effect. No wonder he grows up to be sullen, creepy Casey Affleck.

o-INTERSTELLAR-TV-SPOTS-facebookThat’s no knock on the younger Affleck, who is a fine actor, but the Cooper son is not unique in his shallow utilitarian nature. There are no real, human characters in Interstellar—everyone is there to act as an avatar of a larger idea or ideal.

Cooper is the loving, protective father with the can-do American spirit of exploration and adventure (multiple times his yee-haw pilot skills save the day when pre-programmed flight science falls short); Murph is the future hope of scientific curiosity and imagination; John Lithgow is on hand as Coop’s baby-sitting father in law, so Coop’s children aren’t entirely abandoned; Michael Caine’s Professor Brand, the head of Secret NASA, is The Wise Elder who recites the same Dylan Thomas poem over and over. Bill Irwin voices a cool robot that is on hand to represent cool robots.

And Hathaway’s younger Brand is… well, her character is Love. That’s it. That’s her entire purpose in the film. Hathaway is Hollywood’s current embodiment of romantic, sometimes tragic love, with those big sad eyes full of hope and pain, and so her character is included in Interstellar just so she can give a big speech in the middle about the Power of Love. About how love is not simply a chemically-created genetic survival instinct, but literally a scientifically measurable, quantum force that can transcend time and space.

interstellar-17No, really, she says that. For pure movie-magic stupidity, this is right up there with George Lucas trying to convince us that the Force really runs on Midicholrians in the blood stream. Nolan has always approached human behavior as something that, while complex, can still be categorized and explained, and Interstellar feels as if the director, flummoxed by his own love for real people in his life, sets out to find a cosmic spreadsheet he can fit the powerful emotion into, to make it part of the greater formula of life.

All of Interstellar’s characters are laid out in that same spreadsheet, each of them carefully assigned traits and motivations that neatly fit into the film’s larger panorama. Nolan is so in love with his concepts and constructions that his characters almost always feel like just another collection of components. They don’t act, speak, or behave like real, people, but as simulacra; their feelings quantified, their arcs classified and cataloged.

There are only three types of characters in Interstellar: farmers, scientists, and astronauts (four if you count the highly symbolic baseball players in the background), and each type is painted with broad, easy, thin strokes. There’s hardly a line of dialogue in the film that sounds like it was uttered by a human being in natural conversation with another. Instead, everyone converses in platitudes and pronouncements and fierce declarations of intent. And Dylan Thomas poetry. Lots of Dylan Thomas poetry.

interstellar-30Interstellar is also a film that purports to celebrate science, the quest for discovery, the curiosity of exploration, and the triumph of rational thought and knowledge over superstition and fear. At one point the film pointedly trots out a near-future school teacher who insists the Apollo moon landings were staged. The message is clear: See what happens to us as a society when we abandon scientific thought? We get giant crop-destroying dust storms that make everything really dusty and reduce the mighty New York Yankees to playing ball in Little League lots.

But as things progress and the plot manipulations demand it, the Nolan brothers start tossing around increasingly ridiculous science (much of it having to do with the poor, abused Theory of Relativity) purely for the sake of keeping the short-attention-span audience goosed with regular doses of oooh-aaaah action scenes and awwww tear-duct sucker-punches.

(Between the black holes, worm holes, tessaracts, and gravity boogeying across the fifth dimension, it’s as if they let McConaughey re-color the Laws of Physics during a smoky lunch break.)

interstellar-matthew-mcconaughey-anne-hathaway-david-gyasiWorst of all, after having Cooper give science and rational thought plenty of that sweet, sweet McConaughey drawling lip service in the first half, in the film’s second half one of the characters who represents “pure science and rational thought” turns out to be a bad guy. Not just a bad guy, but a full-blown mustache-twirling bwahahahaha movie villain—in part because he supports a scientific, rational solution. So yeah, suck it, science. The heart wins! Love wins! The head loses. Science loses. Again.

When pressed on fact that even the “science” they fudged for the sake of narrative expediency and entertainment value, the Brothers Nolan would probably fall back on that hoariest of Hollywood excuses: “Well, it’s more of a fable than reality, and the most important thing is engaging the audience in the story.”

Except that even as an edifying, heart-felt fable, Interstellar is still full of space poop. The Nolans love them a good puzzle-box as Inception proves, but they get way too much respect as “storytellers” when in fact their idea of story is just that cool (cold) puzzle box that, no matter how artificially complex, fits neatly together, with all questions answered, all endings plausibility-stretching happy and hopeful.

minor-issues-aside-interstellar-was-excellent-spoilers-review-ff83f632-652b-4ab7-b10f-612cb812c22bInterstellar’s larger narrative is suitably impressive only for its size, reach, and scope as it roams across space, time, and other dimensions. It’s a massive, stunning achievement in epic geek movie making—it’s totally cosmic, man—but it still feels utterly contrived and, despite all the tears, soulless.

Once you’ve stumbled out of the theater and back into the harsh light of reality, none of it makes a bit of sense, nor is it really supposed to—Nolan’s plot points and exposition exists simply to support the tale he wants to tell (about a father’s love for his daughter, in case you hadn’t hipped to that yet) and to cheat out the film’s cheap, shallow emotional beats. Ooh, farmers are important! Oh, space exploration is good! Ooh, loving your children (at least one of them) is nice!

In practice, the film itself is plenty entertaining and gripping, and when critics and audiences flail over themselves to praise Interstellar, that’s what they’re praising: its strange planets (one all gray water and giant tidal waves, the other layers of gray frozen clouds) look amazing and mostly holds your attention for a long two hours and 45 minutes. We are a generation raised by Spielberg and now roaming through non-stop media entertainment 24/7, not just susceptible to this sort of wide-screen string-pulling, but craving it. We live to be constantly seduced by spectacle, steadfast in our collective cultural belief that the cinema must be a constant dream factory, pumping out illusion to keep our restless consciousness from tumbling into existential despair.

bgLike Inception, Interstellar is loudly jacked up on contrived threats and races against time, perpetuated by increasingly silly imaginary “rules.” (Interstellar ends up being as accurate and believable in its notions of space-time as Inception is on the science of dreams.)

Of course it’s a mainstream film and thus requires a certain amount of goosed-up drama, danger, and conflict, but Nolan is so clinical about it, so brazen and sterile, even when injecting into it his seemingly newfound appreciation for “selfless” love. (Fueled with the overwhelming arrogance of a true explorer—or film maker, Cooper’s idea of love is purely selfish. He’s willing to sacrifice the future of humanity to see his daughter one more time.)

Nolan’s ideas are comic-book shallow, which would be fine if Interstellar just wanted to be a comic-book movie, but it wants to be so much more, mean so much more. There’s lots of talk about exploration and the pioneer spirit, about the stars and wonder, but by the end you understand that Nolan’s enthusiasm isn’t really for real science, it’s for that mythical American West idea of just going out and doing something big somewhere new. The only reason Nolan wants to build a bridge to the future is so people can bungee jump off it.

interstellar-imageDespite the sledgehammer repetition of Thomas’ verse, Interstellar has no internal grace or vision of its own—it’s all borrowed pomp and parade, no poetry. For all its pretensions of being “about something important,” Interstellar is yet another dazzling fun ride tricked out to feel like both a science lesson and a life sermon.

Those seeking even the pop-lite existential melancholy and inward yearning of “Rocket Man” or “Space Oddity” are instead treated to very expensive, very epic and exciting rollercoaster and log flume rides. It’s EPCOT Center in space. In love.

Fury: The War Rages On

fury-poster-brad-pittLet’s start at the end.

Stylistically and thematically, the closing credits of writer-director David Ayer’s WWII tank film, Fury, starring Brad Pitt, are some of the most fascinatingly jarring of recent years.

The proceeding film is an often brutal, gruesome look at the psychological cost of war, namely the anger—yes, the fury—that some long-time soldiers eventually fill themselves with to physically and emotionally survive and keep fighting, even in a war that’s almost won. Well-constructed with visual drive and inward determination, Fury is exciting and moving but most often mournful over the loss of not just life but innocence that war—even a “Good War”—demands.

But Fury’s end titles are a grating, shocking montage of WWII scenes; of humans fighting and dying in battle, the jumble-hacked screen drenched in a blood-red tint. They feel like horror-film credits—the sort of glaring, gash of dread ferocity you’d find following a teen slasher flick. And that has to be intentional on Ayers’ part.

While his movie does its best to deconstruct and subvert the more hollow “honor” and “glory” of too many war films, it still stars our beloved Brad Pitt, and even as the film works to snuff any sense of celebration or entertainment thrill from its very exciting battle scenes, it still can’t avoid a few war-movie clichés, including noble speeches and heroic deaths.

The credits are, however, an impressive slap in the face just as the film ends, reminding us of Ayers’ operating thesis amid the film’s gripping entertainment value and gritty faux-realism: War is a true horror show that can, out of necessity, turn even the most good-hearted and best-intentioned of humans into monsters.

Ayers—who famously wrote the bad-cop Training Day and wrote and directed 2012’s underrated good-cops End of Watch—himself served in the Navy and prides himself on his immersion in and fictional documentation of the camaraderie of closed-off macho-male cadres (including the non-stop ball-busting banter). He’s fascinated by the price any warrior must pay, the moral lines that have to be crossed, and the myths and aggrandizement bought into to rationalize the transgressions.

In that respect, Ayers sometimes teeters between exploitative film making for the sake of macho, bad-boy fantasies and having searching for meaning amid the gun play. And while his Sabotage earlier this year with Schwarzenegger mostly pandered to action-flick genre shallowness, his films like End of Watch and now Fury are genuinely interested in what all that violence means. And what it costs those in professions that demand it.

fury-brad-pitt-imageThe R-rated Fury doesn’t shy from the gore, and on first glance you might dismiss the film as simply a “men on a mission” war flick dunked in indulgent blood letting. But Ayers makes all those spilled blood and guts count; Fury rolls steadily ahead under his surest direction to date with the film maker in control of his violent imagery. That imagery includes pieces of faces splattering the inside of a tank, limbs and heads blown off, eyes stabbed, and men on fire, but Ayers is careful to pay for every gruesome visual, firmly showing us what all that death means to those still living, including the men who caused it.

One of those men is Pitt’s Sgt. Donald “Wardaddy” Collier, commander of a Sherman tank crew that’s been fighting and killing Germans together for years. It’s spring of 1945, and everyone but Hitler knows the war is over, but Collier and his men must make that final push on into the Fatherland, well past their frayed and tattered physical and emotional endurance, still both protected and trapped inside their tank, a cramped, claustrophobic place they’ve named “Fury” but call home.

Each man in Collier’s crew has, since North Africa, found a way to cordon off themselves from the horrors they’ve witnessed and committed. That includes Shia LaBeouf as a Bible thumping gunner who masks his pragmatic cynicism with scripture; Michael Pena, who, as the tank’s driver prefers to find his faith in a bottle; and Jon Bernthal as the loader, a shaved redneck ape hiding behind backwoods base simplicity. Foul-mouthed and as likely to turn their anger and frustration on each other as on the Germans, the vets are joined by the film’s “through the eyes of a newcomer” plot device, Logan Lerman as Norman (“normal”), a wet-everywhere clerk shoved in with all these cold-hearted killers.

Lerman’s a terrific young actor who’s played the “new kid” role a few other times in films like the wonderful Perks of Being a Wallflower as well as the Percy Jackson franchise and The Three Musketeers. But as Fury’s Ishmael, Norman is more than just the audience’s point-of-view entrance point into the front-line tank crew.

fury-brad-pitt-logan-lerman-shia-labeoufAt first, he faces blistering rejection by the tight-knit team (his inexperience can get them killed), but step-by-step he’s taught harsh lessons—usually intentionally by Collier, who has no compunction about executing prisoners in order to teach his new soldier how to not just kill, but embrace it. We watch Norman become more like the hardened Fury crew until he’s firing away while shouting “Fuck you, fucking Nazis!” with the rest of them.

Bernthal and Pena are both also good in the film, working with the usual war-movie cut-out characters, but it’s LaBeouf who steps up and forcefully reminds us that, beyond the Transformer movies and moronic headlines, he’s still a tremendous actor, the kind who seems to effortlessly lose himself in a character with a mix of naturalism and thespian skill.

Fury is, however, ultimately a “Brad Pitt movie,” and as usual Pitt steps up and does fine, grizzled work. (Though they share a war and a Southern accent, despite critics’ lazy comparisons, Collier is not just Pitt dusting off his cartoonish Aldo Raine from Inglourious Basterds.) We don’t learn much about Don Colliers the pre-war civilian, but that’s Ayers’ point: that man doesn’t exist anymore; there is only sad, tired, angry Wardaddy.

But since, for the most part, the film is trying to stay in the Cineplex mainstream, its early hints at Collier’s cold-hearted brutality—hell, his outright war crimes—are soon swept aside for a more palatable protective and flawed father figure with an iconic square jaw and firm gaze. (And a shirtless torso that suggests there was room for a Bowflex machine inside the tank.)

The rare time we see Collier acting like a normal human being is during a sedate domestic interlude designed specifically for that purpose, wherein he and Norman take R&R in the apartment of a German woman (Anamaria Marinca) and her niece (Alicia von Rittberg). The scene is calculated to coax some distant memory of “why we fight” civilized decency out of Collier, complete with piano playing and fresh eggs. But as the rest of the crew arrive, it also serves as an ugly reminder that the Americans are a conquering force, treating, with barely contained aggression, all food, shelter, and females as theirs for the taking.

fury 2(An aside: As Ayers ratchets the tension up in that apartment scene, Pena’s character makes a series of typical male wisecracks about women and drink. Though intended as jokes by the character, the comments are not supposed to be funny in the context of the film’s moment, thick as it is with the threat of rape—instead they play as cruel, even chilling.

(Except to the preview audience I saw the film with, which, during this scene and others, howled uproariously at what it saw as gallows humor comic relief. We are programmed to be entertained and amused at all times, even if it means missing the point.)

Quiet interludes aside, Fury works best in its powerful and effective battle scenes—for all his interest in things like the Evil Men Do in the Name of Good and Can a Crooked Man Walk a Straight Path, Ayers remains an action director at heart, albeit one with artsy aspirations. While some non-battle sections of Fury fall back on cheap Bible quotes, brotherhood themes, and an annoyingly “this is how you should feel” obtrusive musical score, the actual fighting crackles with terrifying and compelling energy even as the screen fills with smoke and haze.

But just as he never lets the film’s gore spill for its own sake, Ayers also never lets the audience truly celebrate an exciting battle scene. His action beats are visceral but never video-game voyeuristic, and while the crew of the Fury may come out on top, the fight itself is so loud, so nerve-wracking, and won at such brutal costs, what thrills we’re allowed feel less like entertainment and more like edification.

As a film, Fury has its issues—Ayers has a lot to say and does so with a lot of energy, but while this is a major step forward, he’s yet to get it all working completely in tandem in a film. So, like its titular tank, Fury sometimes thematically starts and stops, lurching and stalling between its desire for realism and its adherence to war-movie clichés. (Not to mention its taste for poetic visual symbolism—like white horses and pretty roadside war orphans—that sometimes works, sometimes wobbles.)

03FURY-master675Still, I keep returning to those closing credits and how they perfectly, shockingly underscore what I think Ayers is trying to say with Fury and with and about all its violence.

Unlike pieces of propaganda trash like this year’s reprehensible 300: Rise of an Empire, Fury is not out to glorify fantasy war for teenage boys, nor is it trying to add yet another layer of reverent varnish to our cultural memory of the Greatest Generation. (It also eschews any cheap patriotic sentimentality.) It’s main thesis is more interesting than just that war is hell, and it does its best to avoid earnest 21st-century hand-wringing over the psychological trauma combat inflicts on its participants.

Instead, Fury is about just that: fury. No matter what “good” reasons there may be for going to war, ultimately it comes down to someone having to kill other human beings, and unless you’re a sociopath, ideology can only provide so much moral cover for killing in the name of national interests. Ultimately for soldiers like Collier and his men to survive they wear their rage like armor, becoming engines of angry destruction aimed at Berlin. (In what feels like a script cheat and plot device designed to let “Good Germans” off the villainous hook, Collier narrows his hatred of his enemy to the S.S. in particular, making them feel a bit like ginned-up “Movie Bad Guys” more suited for an Indiana Jones movie.)

Regardless of what characters survive to the finish of the film, its closing credits remind us that in order to do so—in order to win—the “good guys” had to let themselves be consumed by the very fury that carried and protected them. To that end, all of Fury’s on-screen graphic violence feels not just justified but necessary.

Gone Girl, Gone

gone-girl-poster-ben-affleckHeading to the press screening of David Fincher’s Gone Girl, I was, as usual, running late. But as I rushed from bus to cab to dashing down crowded Chicago streets, I reassured myself that even if I was five minutes late, I had a pretty good sense of what I’d miss in that opening: a series of blue-gray, pre-dawn shots of a quiet Mississippi river town in Missouri; empty streets, silent houses, shuttered downtown businesses, the blackish river creeping by, etc. All set to a low-key, subtly ominous score that forebode trouble on Main Street, Heartland, USA.

As it turned out, I made it to the screening on time, and sure enough, I was pretty close in my guess. (There’s also a chilling thematic aperitif just before the river town montage.) The opening is very well done, but how did I know what it would be? Because I’ve seen dozens of suburban tales of violent, domestic intrigue—Murder in the Cul-de-sac, Guilty by Suspicion, that sort of thing. I’ve read Gillian Flynn’s 2012 best-selling novel. And I’ve seen all of David Fincher’s films.

Which isn’t to say that Gone Girl isn’t a near-immaculate version of all that or that the movie doesn’t have plenty of devious pleasures. But it is to say that if you’ve read Flynn’s book, or seen a Fincher thriller, or really any tale of small-town murder and/or nefarious domestic scheming, you’ll have a pretty good idea going in of exactly what Gone Girl will deliver with impeccable, almost frustrating precision.

At Fincher’s hand, with Ben Affleck and Rosamund Pike starring and Flynn adroitly and economically adapting her own novel, the book’s Midwest Gothic tale gets the shiniest of Hollywood-noir glosses—visually and tonally, we’re firmly in Fincher-land, although for the sake of what Fincher knows is mass-market entertainment-value and artistic and thematic slumming, let’s call it Fincher-land Lite… FincherBurbia?

In Fincher-land the wood grains are rich and darkly polished, shot on rich, darkly polished digital by Fincher’s long-time cinematographer Jeff Cronenweth (Fight Club, The Social Network, The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo). (Someday Fincher is going to fulfill his artistic dream and his cinematic destiny and make a Ken Burns-sized documentary entitled Richly Grained, Polished Wood in Shadow: A Chiaroscuro Study in Ten Parts.) In Fincher-land even the rust, rot, and moral decay is burnished in deep, evocative shades—heady, beautiful Platonic Ideals of rust, rot, and moral decay that form a gorgeous Pottery Barn Noir.

Flynn’s script is compact, tight, and efficient, and as in the book, the plot twists and puzzles are carefully parceled out to keep the viewer happily locked in for the whole trip, and Fincher’s direction is equally mannered, crafted to a fine hum. In diving into the eerie small-town Missouri tale of Nick Dunne (Affleck) and his suddenly missing wife Amy (Pike), the film Gone Girl (like Flynn’s novel) plays as a good old-fashioned Hitchcockian page-turner. Fincher has however, with his now-trademarked craftsmanship, created yet another of these “entertainments” that tends to feel as echoingly hollow as it is visually and narratively compelling—the triumph of the slick aesthetic.

gone-girl-01_1485x612That said, if you haven’t read the book or seen the flick yet, here is where we bid you a fond adieu. Because much from here on out is going to be spoiler-ish And as those who’ve read/seen Gone Girl know, on both page and screen, it’s a tale that rides and compels on its plot twists.

If indeed his intent is to create a satiric puppet show about the deadly domestic void behind most romantic tales, Fincher couldn’t have found two better actors for the endeavor than Affleck and Pike. Both have always given off a sheen of Old-Hollywood marquee-attractiveness while carefully cultivating guarded, even sealed-off personas on (and off) screen.

To be clear, I’ve always stood in full praise of Ben Affleck—he is and always has been a singularly talented and grippingly watchable actor, often using his paradoxical combination of natural, boyish charm and distant old-school poise to mask deeper currents. Hatas gonna hate, and over the past couple decades, prior to Argo’s Oscar success, it was cheap, easy sport to pick apart Affleck’s role choices and to fall back on lazy dismissals of him based on an artificially created tabloid-media shallowness. (To be fair, for a long while, Affleck had an impressive track record for picking stunningly crappy projects. Though the two usually hauled out against him for the sake of a lazy laugh —Gigli and Jersey Girl—are not nearly as bad as people like to pretend.)

As a long-time member of the Affleck Fan Club (even when it seemed membership consisted solely of Kevin Smith and myself), I can’t help but smugly sneer at everyone now putting aside their “Batffleck” Twitter jibes and pretending to be suddenly shocked the actor is so good in Gone Girl. (Even as they try to diminish his natural talent by suggesting that Affleck’s own guarded emotions and past history with the media neatly inform Nick’s own tabloid trials.)

david-finchers-gone-girl-4-tv-spots-and-a-clipMaybe if everyone hadn’t been so busy enabling and feeding the tabloid distraction machine with the easy snark, they might have noticed the subtle depth of Affleck’s work in films like Hollywoodland, State of Play (a test-run for Nick Dunne’s pre-judged guilt), and The Company Men. As with those roles, Gone Girl stars Affleck the Dark Movie Star. His Nick is all dour disappointment and sullen disassociation, tucked tightly behind the glib politician’s need to please and be liked.

Likewise, Rosamund Pike has long quietly impressed with great work in good films like The Libertine, Pride & Prejudice, An Education, and Barney’s Version, and is often the best thing in other, mixed-quality films. Like Affleck, Pike sometimes seems hampered by her classical good looks—her face appears so pristine, so ideally proportioned that the actress turns up her haughty demeanor in hopes of subverting her own beauty. At other times, her porcelain-doll face and relentlessly clear eyes can start to drift into the Uncanny Valley—sliding from Grace Kelly into something more alien; a femme fatale-bot giving off the sort of low-register subconscious warnings that make the animal hairs on the back of your neck stand up.

On paper Pike is an obvious fit for Amy Dunne. That cold, other-worldly manner and the effortless shift from the pleading fear and vulnerably of a frail ice princess to the silent ferociousness of a cornered feral cat well-serve Amy’s squirming, seductive, and deadly duplicity. Unfortunately while Pike’s increasingly wild-eyed performance is (like most of the film) completely enjoyable, it further undermines the actual character of Amy, turning her into even more of a cartoon; a bottle-blonde Hannibal Lecter. First Flynn’s script, then Pike’s performance, and finally Fincher’s direction steadily strip away all the humanity from Book Amy, who at least felt like a real person (albeit a real crazy person). Movie Amy winds up yet another of Fincher’s unknowable freak-show ciphers, which, sadly, is how we prefer our movie villains.

(In fact,gone_girl_17 Pike’s portrayal of Amy in Gone Girl comes off so inhuman, so terrifyingly calculating even from the early halcyon flashbacks, that it reminds me of why I only grudgingly accept Anthony Hopkins’ iconic Lecter—I get a kick from its obvious, Gothic-fun value, but find it less interesting than the deceptive humanity and charm Brian Cox brought to his more subtly sinister Lecktor [sic] in Mann’s Manhunter.)

The rest of the film’s cast is equally well-chosen, face by terrifically appropriate face: Kim Dickens (Treme) and Patrick Fugit (Almost Famous) as the investigating police (Dickens is especially good); Carrie Coon as Nick’s sibling support system; Neil Patrick Harris as a fastidious, fussy former Amy paramour; and Tyler Perry as superstar lawyer Tanner Bolt.

(The best thing about Perry’s genuinely great performance isn’t that he disarms the anti-Medea wags, but that Bolt is a refreshing change of pace in Fincher-land: a full-blown cynic who gleefully embraces, owns, and delights in his cynicism and the cynical world he swims in.)

But this is where my mild dissatisfaction with Gone Girl (despite having a decent enough time watching it) may feel churlish. Throughout the film, from the lighting to the direction to the acting in major and minor roles, all that seemingly laudable Fincher attention to detail takes what was already a rather shallow contraption to begin with in Flynn’s novel and shines it all to near blinding familiarity. There are surprises in the film (especially if you haven’t read the novel), and there are shocking scenes, and Affleck (and Pike to a lesser extent) masterfully holds our attention. But in the end, the film feels like the blandly beautiful McMansion Nick and Amy rent: clean, picture-pretty, and well comported, but devoid of anything interestingly sloppy or raw.

3029156-poster-p-1-gone-girl-trailerEven when a hair (or drop of blood) is out of place in Gone Girl, it’s meticulously out of place—to be fair, that perfectionism suits a story in which everything, everyone, every event and emotion has been carefully crafted by some onscreen character to achieve a desired effect.

In fact, that’s the most interesting thing about Gone Girl: its subtext about the artificiality of not just present-day new media (professional witch-burner Nancy Grace gets a much-deserved pillaring), but of how nearly everyone in the film is constantly creating a “brand” or “story” about themselves, tweaking their persona and presentation to sell themselves to someone. Your life is a lie you first tell yourself, suggests Gone Girl, then you try to find other interested “readers” who will buy it. (In exchange, you reciprocate and agree to buy their lies.)

Fincher-land’s icy aesthetic and philosophy often invites comparisons to Kubrick, but Kubrick always took a gods’-eye remove from humanity—his mis-perceived misanthropy was the unblinking, curious gaze of the alien observer. Fincher’s slick and shiny version more often feels like the lazy formalism and moral detachment of a one-time commercial director who, no matter how heady the subject matter, still prefers the surfaces and the suggestion of a vast hollow below. (When it comes to a lack of faith in humanity, Fincher makes his idol Hitchcock look like Capra.) In Fincher-land the human condition is dim and beyond that, unknowable–not that you’d want to. (Though his view of it is rarely dreary or dull—Fincher’s particular brand of artifice has little time for mundane naturalism).

In that sense, in Fincher’s Gone Girl Nick and Amy become yet another of his studies of someone consumed by someone else’s (often deadly) delusion/story: David Mills made a part of John Doe’s psychopathic tableau in Seven, Nicolas Van Orton caught up in The Game, Fight Club’s Narrator trying to sort out his role in Tyler Durden’s increasingly extreme narrative, Robert Graysmith slowly entrapped by his search for The Zodiac Killer in Zodiac.

gone-girl-12Fincher doesn’t so much see hearts of darkness in his characters as a void. Humans are shells; playthings jerked along by a cruel fate born of deadly curiosity and troublesome ennui, trapped by their obsessions, cornered by the things they fear most.

Most Fincher characters look long into the abyss and find… just the abyss, all nothingness and nihilism. (We’ll leave out Benjamin Button because… well, because who knows what the hell Fincher was thinking there.) They’re maneuvered into hunting and fighting demons, but in the end the demons hold no special meaning, belong to no epic adversarial legions, impart no grand truths. They just are; we just are. Enjoy your popcorn.

It’s no surprise that Fincher’s most-lauded film, The Social Network, centers on Jesse Eisenberg’s portrayal of Mark Zuckerberg as a quizzical sociopath—exactly the kind of person who sees a massive social-media network as a legitimate replacement for actual, emotional human interaction. With Social Network and then The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo, and Netflix’ House of Cards (which he executive produces), Fincher was finally able to move away from stories about protagonists struggling against nihilistic sociopaths and simply make the sociopaths his heroes. The giddy appeal of Gone Girl is you’re not sure which sort of Fincher film you’re watching—are some of these “heroic” characters manipulative, malicious sociopaths? Or all of them?

All of this doesn’t sound much like the sort of film “critics” are calling a great “date night movie” and yet audiences are flocking to it on date nights, making it Fincher’s highest grossing release. That’s understandable–both the book and flick Gone Girl do bang-up jobs of keeping the readers/viewers neatly skewered on that meat hook of omg-what-next fascination. But watered-down satire of modern marriage aside, Gone Girl is not constructed to get at anything other than a rippin’ good, gruesome yarn—yet another grim fairy tale about Our World Today, complete with a nutty-mean witch at its heart. Sure it’s a lurid funhouse, but just as you know all the spooky tricks going in, you can still get a hoot out of the ride.

gone-girl-2(The glaring exception to all this clockwork thriller craft: the plot-spinning, head-scratchingly cheap, second-half pivot the film inherits from the novel. Amy’s sudden decision to return to Nick is silly on the page, but at least there it has plenty of motivational buttressing from previous chapters’ internal currents.

(On film, streamlined to keep things moving forward, the moment is played off by Pike as a clichéd literal “eye-opening” change of heart. You can feel Fincher, Flynn, and even Pike convincing themselves that by this point they’ve earned some cheat points and agreeing to toss their hands in the air and say, “Yeah, it makes no sense, but oh well, whatever!”)

But the main reason Flynn’s novel and now Fincher’s film succeed so well in the mainstream is their relentless plucking at our cynical chords about love and marriage. Nick and Amy’s tale peels back the fairy-book dream of the happy couple; of the heroic husband striking all the right brave, hopeful poses while desperately trying to get his beloved wife back.

Eventually in Gone Girl, love and matrimony reveal themselves as codependent addictions every bit as self-destructive as booze or smack in films like Days of Wine and Roses, Sid and Nancy, Drugstore Cowboy, or Leaving Las Vegas. (Best Sweetest Day date movie evah.) In Romance According to Nick and Amy, after the passionate battle of courtship, marriage becomes an uneasy detente in the face of mutually assured destruction, each side peering through binoculars at the other across a king-sized DMZ.

And we love it, gleefully smirking over how effed up the characters are, even as we see a bit of ourselves in them. Like Clarice and Hannibal, Mills and John Doe, the Narrator and Tyler Durden, Greenwood and the Zodiac, or the viewer and Frank Underwood, we’re not just drawn to dangerous characters because of some easy bad-boy, bad-girl flirtation with danger or desire to be scared, but because fictional characters like these, and like Nick and Amy in Gone Girl, allow us to simultaneously pass judgment on “evil” (or at least naughtiness) in fiction while secretly embracing the nastier impulses and desires within ourselves; our own brokenness. We have met Nick and Amy, to paraphrase the possum, and they is us. We are Nick, willingly laying down to an uneasy sleep each night next to not only a creature that might kill him but his own murderous impulses.

gone-girl-1At his best, Fincher is fascinated by this never-ending, oft-denied dance within us all—even when his explorations of the darker side of the human condition fall short of really saying anything (as in Gone Girl). Despite its sometimes gory, sometimes sexy shenanigans, Gone Girl never feels truly transgressive, subversive, or satirical in the ways Fincher’s films like Seven, Fight Club, and Zodiac reached for. But at his most commercially opportunistic, the director still milks the shadows for entertainment value and cheap thrills.

One of the major changes from page to screen is in the film’s final scene, bookended with its opening, in which Nick, through troubled voice-over, muses over what’s going on in his wife’s head (more specifically, he speculates on smashing her skull open with a rock to peer inside her brain). Both the book and the film alternate between Nick and Amy’s versions of events, and its Nick’s unraveling of the missing-girl puzzle that drives the story.

But when it comes right down to it thematically, the book is primarily Amy’s tale—she carries the written narrative both forward and backward as she speaks directly to the reader; it’s her psychosis we find so mesmerizing. And it’s Amy’s voice and her unsettling, threatening concerns about her future with Nick that closes the novel.

But the film Gone Girl is all about Nick; his trials and tribulations in the public eye and the media court; his quest for the truth; his take on the bizzare events unfolding around him. As it becomes yet another of Hollywood’s Man’s-eye Movies, it’s naturally Nick (and Affleck the Hollywood Star, not Pike the British indie queen), who gets the film’s final word, speculating on what may come for Amy and himself. Once again, Amy, a fascinating character on the page, is shoved into the “Movie Villain” Tupperware.

Flynn’s book also stirred controversy over its perceived misogyny—after all, it can be argued Amy is purely a fictional validation of every “my ex-girlfriend is a crazy bitch!” argument; a femme fatale for the Internet Age. Though a case could be made that she also functions as id catharsis for some female readers/viewers enjoying a little anti-cheating husband payback: “Sure, she’s insane and horrific and goes too far, but…” (

And yes, Flynn’s script preserves a condensed version of the novel’s famous “Cool Girl” soliloquy, even if Pike’s Movie Amy is a very different kind of “cool” girl; emphasis on the freeze, not the fun.)

gone-girl-10As is so often the case with these sorts of pop-cultural concerns, the problem isn’t so much the character of Amy, but the eventual popularity of the book and film. As I’ve said before, we can’t praise the power of film as art, especially as popular art, and not accept that powerful, popular art can and does have an effect—a slow, steady drip drip drip into the cultural subconscious.

Gone Girl is silly, sick-fun pulp noir and is easily enjoyed as such—as is intended—but as popular as the book and film are, and given that—like Fatal Attraction more than 25 years ago—they will be with us in the pop-culture firmament for many years, the character of Amy sadly reinforces some guys’ (and gals’) stereotypical image of the “crafty, unhinged, deadly woman spurned.”

Pike’s Movie Amy is so much of a cartoon villain, it’s hard to imagine anyone taking her seriously as a gloss on real human female behavior, any more than we think Hannibal Lecter is an accurate representative of British psychiatry. (Oddly, this year’s other popular film about what motivates a villainous female, Maleficent, attempts the exact opposite, showing the maternal, loving, and caring side of a cartoon villain.)

But then, for all his evil, Lecter is still a privileged white male character, and as we once again wade through toxic filth like currently raging online controversies, we’re reminded that when it comes to villainizing women in our current pop culture landscape, we (especially stupid young white males soaked in a warped sense of victimized entitlement) don’t always shower ourselves in glory.

gone-girl-14-600x421Such hand-wringing aside, both Flynn and Fincher know what their tale is, what it needs to be (a wickedly fun night at the theater), what bells need to be rung, what strings need to be tugged to keep a mainstream audience not just on the hook, but enjoying hanging there.

The writer and director know this is trash, but it’s never allowed to be messy. Instead, its carefully packed into securely tied garbage bags and placed neatly on the suburban curb. What happens to it after that is someone else’s problem.

Interview: Kill the Messenger Director Michael Cuesta

kill-the-messenger-postermichael cuestaIn 1996 the San Jose Mercury News published (in print and on the nascent World Wide Web) a series of investigative articles entitled “Dark Alliance” by journalist Gary Webb.

In the articles, Webb stated that in the ’80s the CIA not only supported cocaine smuggling out of Nicaragua in order to fund its clandestine war against the Sandinista Government, but the Agency also turned a blind eye to the spread of the Los Angeles crack epidemic.

Soon after its publication, other newspapers, including the Washington Post, The New York Times, and the Los Angeles Times began attacking Webb’s story, trying to poke holes and discredit his reporting.

A passion project of its star and producer, Jeremy Renner, the new drama Kill the Messenger follows both Webb’s investigative legwork and publishing triumph and his subsequent fall from grace as his character and integrity are attacked by both the CIA and other news organizations. The gripping film is not so much about vast, shadowy conspiracies, but a view from within an individual of the self-destructive cost of a personal, passionate pursuit of the truth. (Webb’s claims would eventually be vindicated by a 1998 CIA report, and in the 2000s, several of the newspapers that had attacked him and his story published mea culpas.)

kill_the_messenger_4_largeStarring Renner as Webb and written by Peter Landesman (based on Webb’s own 1998 book Dark Alliance and Nick Schou’s 2006 book about Webb, Kill the Messenger), the film Kill the Messenger is directed by Michael Cuesta, whose work includes the 2001 feature film L.I.E., extensive directing duties on Six Feet Under, Dexter, and an Emmy for Homeland).

The film also features Michael Sheen, Andy Garcia, Ray Liotta, Barry Pepper, Mary Elizabeth Winstead, Rosemarie DeWitt, Paz Vega, Oliver Platt, Richard Schiff, and Michael K. Williams.

I spoke with Cuestra last month in Chicago about his film, working with Renner, and how he went about telling the real Gary Webb’s story.

Kill the Messenger opens this weekend in select cities.

___________

 

The interesting thing about Webb’s story is that it wasn’t so much the CIA that tried to crush him as it was other newspapers.

Michael Cuestra: The CIA is part of it, but it’s much more about other journalists, the papers, and the bigger media monster that was created in the ‘80s, when it became more for-profit.

kill-the-mes-6All those papers that wrote disparaging stories poking holes in Gary’s investigation didn’t print the story when it should have been investigated in the ‘80s.

So I saw it as those papers being really jealous that they missed the scoop or were afraid or were diverted and they didn’t dig. So it took a guy like Gary at a smaller paper that wasn’t really part of that conglomerate.

This took place in the early years of the Web, when everyone thought it would really open up investigative journalism. Instead, the film feels almost like a eulogy for investigative journalism.

Cuestra: Gary and the Mercury were the first to use the Internet, using it for that story. It was Gary’s idea to do that, letting the readers into his notebook and all his sources. Gary was very much a watchdog and was encouraged to dig as deep as he could. They brought him to San Jose because he had a reputation of going after corruption and government scandal. He was hired to do exactly that.

The film does have a swan-song feeling for investigative reporting. I did approach it like that. We don’t have those guys anymore, and I wanted to present Gary as kind of rock star with that cock-of-the-walk swagger. He was the end of an era.

But he was also really a stickler for detail, spending hours at night going through archives and old files. He checked everything—he was that guy. Especially in the first half of the film, I wanted to get that rhythm, of the cop on the beat. I approached it almost like a procedural.

killthemessenger-firstlook1-fullThat’s the challenge of a journalism movie, like any film about writing–you might have a big story and big themes, but you still have to figure out how to show the legwork, the research, and the actual writing.

Cuestra: That was tough, but it was obviously my job. The original script didn’t have the writing process, so I wanted that moment of catharsis when after all his investigation, he finally gets to sit down and write the story.

I added that scene in, where he sits down and puts on The Clash and gets to writing. He was a rock guy, and you can see his excitement for writing; he’s making the painting. I wanted to bring the audience into that process and make it exciting.

How did you and Renner go about creating a character version of Webb that was compelling on the screen but still true to the real-life person?

Cuestra: It’s really about two film-making techniques.

For me, I want to make the character as complex and real as possible. It’s not about being entertaining, but being completely truthful in the scene and not over-characterizing anything. I’d worked with Jeremy before, so we could work together to make his performance real and not just a character.

messengerThen as a film maker you work to structure the film as a dramatic piece, using the real-life facts as story beats—for example Gary getting this mysterious call from this woman, Coral Baca (Vega), that sends the story off to the races.

That’s the way you put a movie together—once you have the performance, it’s my job to structure it, subtly, to figure out the movement of it all. Get his performance into the path of the story beats, where the story needs to go.

For example, the third act of the movie slows down a little bit because Gary goes into Purgatory, getting further and further away. He’s alone in this. I always wanted the film to come from him and his point of view.

How do you then capture that intention through visual style and camerawork?

Cuestra: It’s the subjectivity of it; it’s from inside, it’s his story and what happens to him as a result of his investigation. That was always the intent, to keep the camera on his shoulders, so to speak. The camera should reflect his feeling.

So the first half is more optimistic; it’s looser, scrappier, focused on Gary. That was a conscious effort by myself and my Director of Photography Sean Bobbit—we would discuss the script every morning and go through each scene.

Kill_the_Messenger_reviewThen the second half of the film gets bigger as a bigger thing is imposed onto Gary, and the film and the camera becomes more omniscient. There’s something else surrounding Gary that’s way more powerful than him, so the swagger starts to get stripped away and he starts to get lost in an open ocean, in uncharted waters.

The battlefield gets wider and wider, and I put more and more space on the screen—he’s alone. He knows he’s going there, and he chooses to go there.

It’s Gary’s journey, and the film has to tell his story as best it can. It’s all about getting the audience to feel what it’s like to carry that burden; that drive and passion to get at the truth. And the cost of it, the sacrifice.

Interview: The Guest Star Dan Stevens, Writer Simon Barrett, and Director Adam Wingard

cropped guestthe-guest-poster-exclusiveA few years ago, director Adam Wingard and his creative partner, writer Simon Barrett began intriguing horror fans with low-fi, often deftly deconstructive and ironic films like the mumblecore serial-killer flick A Horrible Way to Die, the V/H/S horror anthologies, and last year’s terrific You’re Next.

While part of the mumblecore film un-movement with pals Joe Swanberg, Amy Seimetz, and Ti West, Wingard and Barrett have been inching toward the mainstream. Their latest is The Guest, about a mysterious military vet who, upon returning from an unnamed present-day war, ingratiates himself into the still-grieving family of a fallen comrade.

British Downton Abbey star Dan Stevens plays David, a seeming drifter who turns out to be as deadly as he is charming, masterfully manipulating the emotions of the mourning Peterson family (Shelia Kelly and Leland Orster as the parents, Maika Monroe and Brendan Meyer as their teenage children). Lean, smart and sure-handed, The Guest is an often darkly amusing, clear-eyed, cold-hearted action-thriller.

Another writer and I sat down with Wingard, Stevens, and Barrett last week in Chicago. Our long, free-wheeling chat covered the film’s obvious ’80s genre influences, the British tradition of truly dark satiric comedy, and how to fulfill audiences’ entertainment expectations while still creating something layered and ironically subversive.

The Guest opens in theaters everywhere today.

___________

Adam, you’ve mentioned you were inspired to make this after watching the original Halloween and The Terminator back to back. How do you walk that line between ’80s homage and imitation?

Adam Wingard: The important thing for us was to inhabit that headspace of ‘80s films. The zeitgeist of the time period created that kind of undefinable ‘80s aesthetic. You can’t put it into words, but you can apply elements of it to a story like this, that doesn’t take place in the ‘80s.

The type of storytelling we’re doing aligns itself with that same thing. I don’t want to create an ‘80s parody—I want the movie to exist beyond that reference point, but I want that to influence your enjoyment on another level. But the film is centered on characters and story—the ‘80s style stuff just accentuates that.

guest_2_largeYou mentioned Jason Zinoman’s great book Shock Value which put the rise of ‘70s horror films in the cultural context of post-Vietnam. Is that something you were conscious of when setting your film in our current Iraq/Afghanistan era?

Simon Barrett: We wanted to make a film that had the tone and energy of the movies we grew up with and were inspired by, but we didn’t want to do an imitation of that because that would be lazy. So it was about finding what the modern version of that is.

Our cultural anxiety now is about the fact we’re entering this new terrorism-based endless war, so we wanted to comment on things but not be too on the nose about it. If you make a film with a strong political statement, unfortunately the only people who will see it are those predisposed to agree with that statement, which is how our society consumes media right now.

We want our movies to have layers to them. I don’t want to make a film you have to see twice to get it—we’re not our friend Shane Carruth. We tend watch the films we enjoy again and again, so we try to make films that reward that with layers and subtext. We don’t ever want to make a film that’s not saying something, but it’s about finding that balance.

If you want to come to a movie and have a good time, we’ll deliver that. But if you’re interested in going deeper, I would hope all our films have something to say. So we are interested in our current endless battles in the Middle East and our relationship with the military industrial complex, and what’s going on now with ISIS, but we made it not very specific in the film.

Wingard: Everyone assumes he’s come back from Iraq, but we don’t really say. We saw him more as part of a peripheral special forces unit involved in wars you’ll never hear about.

Like all those secret wars Jeremy Skahill covers in the book and film Dirty Wars.

Barrett: I saw that documentary in theaters, but how many other people did? So that’s the problem—how do you reach those people? How do you reach people whom Dirty Wars would have really educated?

Dan Stevens: By not being specific about the conflict, it enabled us to slightly cut loose.

Wingard: We’re not thinking about our nation’s current predicament. It’s not saying one war is bad and the other ones are okay. It’s more about the general misguided military industrial complex agenda. So hopefully people will see The Guest who maybe wouldn’t plop down the same amount of money to see Dirty Wars, and if they want to, they can get something out of it, and if not, they don’t have to.

Barrett: We want to make movies for audiences, first and foremost. We don’t make movies for ourselves, but we make movies that we would enjoy.

1407781768851_wps_3_The_Guest_2_jpgThere’s certainly some very dark humor.

Wingard: Our take on humor is we try to avoid obvious deconstructive humor that comes with horror or action movies. It seems like either you get a straight-forward genre picture or you get one that supposedly is reverse-engineering the genre, taking it apart and being self-referential. We’re being self-referential, but in a low-key way that is not plot-based, but based more in the stylization and tone and aesthetics of the film.

There are no actual jokes in the film. It’s more about the situation that Simon creates and Dan brings to life. It becomes funny because we in the audience see the absurdity of it and watch the characters deal with that absurdity. By making those characters as real as possible—or at least a stylized version of real—it allows the viewer to project themselves on that situation, and it becomes funny.

Barrett: We don’t just treat our characters as stereotypes that are gonna get murdered. We try to make them feel real in how humans actually interact and speak. It’s not that we don’t have empathy for all our characters—we know who they are. It’s not just characters lining up in a row to get slaughtered. We take our characters quite seriously.

As for whether our sense of humor culturally is getting darker, when you look at the style of humor practiced created online at places like 4Chan and Reddit is in some ways darker, but is it really darker than say Brass Eye or Blackadder? I don’t think it’s getting darker, I just think the mainstream goes in waves. And right now we’re culturally feeling more cynical for good reasons.

Stevens: I want to note that the two cultural references you used were British. We’ve always paved the way. [Laughs]

Barrett: In terms of dry humor, that’s very true.

Stevens: I was very psyched that Adam and Simon had heard of Chris Morris who did Four Lions and a lot of very dark television in the UK in the mid-to-late-‘90s, like this show called Jam.

x99oqP4Dan, you have a background in stand-up comedy?

Stevens: I did a lot of student stand-up, every Tuesday night for three years, but I had no ambitions to be a stand up. I enjoyed it as a discipline to make myself write something five minutes long each week to make my friends life. It was usually a smoky digestion of the week’s happening. It was a great chance to gather and make your words work.

You know immediately doing comedy if what you’ve written is effective because people are laughing or they’re not. If you’re doing a very intense dramatic monologue, you go outside and see your friends either weeping or embarrassed and shuffling off to the car park, pretending they half enjoyed it. I had no aspirations to be comedian, but it’s been very nice to recently reconnect to some of those lines.

You certainly play David with some very subtle, deadpan comic reactions.

Stevens: Let’s go back to Chris Morris. A lot of the performances in his work are very, very straight. They’re barely knowing. Those actors are able to trend a very fine line between ridiculous absurd extreme comedy and a very bleak, dark truth to a scene. Context is key, especially with Adam and Simon’s work.

You’re Next made me laugh, especially [You’re Next spoiler alert!] in A.J. Bowen’s monologue at the end, where it’s revealed the whole affair has been part of some middle-class aspiration to make a little money and have a honeymoon in Paris. To me, that’s so bleakly funny, coming deep in an economic recession.

The Guest has a similar take on global politics, while digesting all those muscle-bound action movies of the ‘80s. For example, some of the ways my character is objectified in the film are perversely funny in that context.

Dan, last night you mentioned two of my favorite films, Lindsey Anderson’s If… and O Lucky Man!

Stevens: If… was another influence we talked about. If… predated the Terminators and the Halloweens—it really had this wonderfully anarchic sense of cool violence, which at the time must have been extremely shocking. That unapologetic, blithe take on destruction.

And Malcolm McDowell was clearly delighting in that role. As an actor, there’s nothing I enjoy more than seeing another actor really enjoy the shit out of his work, on stage or screen. You see it with Kurt Russell in Big Trouble in Little China or Uma Thurman in Kill Bill—they’re clearly having such a good time. I always dreamed of an equally good time in a role like that and managed to achieve it with David in The Guest.

the-guest-dan-stevensHow do you continue to explore these genre films while keeping in mind your audience’s expectations?

Wingard: You’re Next was the first time we’d tried to do a film that was paced and executed in a more audience-friendly way.

In the past because I was working on such a low-budget scale, the only way I was able to make a movie interesting and surpass the low budget was to distract the audience with a lot of experimental film-making techniques. You’re Next was the first time I consciously decided to use more conventional cinematic language and not rely on a lot of weird gimmicks. I figured out a lot of things, but hadn’t refined them yet.

The Guest is a progression from You’re Next in terms of refining those techniques and trying to make a very tight movie. Even though it has a very serious subject and comes out of this family’s mourning and depression, it was a challenge to have fun with it. Our first film, A Horrible Way to Die with AJ Bowen, was similar in that the villain is also the hero of the story.

That’s the exciting challenge with The Guest, too, in creating a character that would conflict its audience. You know he’s trouble, but there are good things, entertaining things about him. Even when the shit really hits the fan and goes past the point of no return, you still can’t help but enjoy the stuff Dan’s doing.

To do that we accelerated the genre elements and the acting and had a lot of fun with the performance, while still keeping it grounded. We knew we had to earn it to get to that point. I would never say The Guest takes place in reality, but there is a consistent reality that we create. It was important to set that up and be able to knock it down.

Dan, how did you flesh out David, balancing his charm and intense menace?

Stevens: “Charm” is a word that came up a lot early on in terms of how we play the audience’s sympathies. I certainly enjoy sitting down with a movie that says, “I’ve got a crazy thing to show you. It’s the freakiest thing you’ve ever seen.” So we needed to establish that from the get-go and not lead you down any dead ends. The charm has to get David in the door and win over the family. Then how far can you run with that charm before people start questioning what you’re up to?

Wingard: We didn’t want to beat around the bush. You know going in that there’s something off about this guy, so there’s no reason to disguise it. We want to assure you that we’re gonna take it slow at first, but as soon as we get it going it’ll be non-stop. That’s always interesting to figure out—how much to show early on. I really feel you have to earn those insane scenes later.

Barrett: You have to respect your audience’s intelligence, too. Know that they’re savvy enough to get where you’re going, so you can skip some of that stuff, do some shorthand, and get to the fun stuff. We always wanted Dan’s character to be likable in a movie way rather than a real-world way. In the real world, he’s terrifying. So it’s about exploring that tension and transforming it as the film goes on.

GuestThere’s also that sociopathic aspect to how David behaves differently with each of them.

Barrett: One of the original goals with the story when I first started coming up with it is that David would find what was missing in people’s lives and become that.

Wingard: We talked about “The Monkey’s Paw” early on.

Barrett: Bob Clark made the film Deathdream, which is a more literal Vietnam-war interpretation of “The Monkey’s Paw.” Wishing for something and getting it, but then your wish is fulfilled in a violent, dark way that’s ultimately horrific. That’s a universally appealing story.

This is often a full-on action film—was that fun to do?

Wingard: The thing that I was really looking forward to doing was to finally do a major shootout sequence. Growing up, the real reason I wanted to make movies was mainly action films. I didn’t get into horror until I was 18 or 19. I had watched a lot of horror when i was younger, but it wasn’t my thing until later.

I grew up idolizing people like Robert Rodriguez—his book Rebel Without a Crew is my Bible—I read it many times in high school. That book influenced my approach to directing, where you gotta learn every aspect of filmmaking, because why not be the best that you can be? I’ve always loved John Woo movies too, and I’d never had the chance or the budget to be able to do a big shootout, so that was really exciting for me.

Stevens: Getting the action-comedy beats as well, bringing it back to the funny as a performer. That’s something I wish we had gone a little further with and hopefully will in future projects, but that sense of having a big action sequence that has those little “aw, fuck!” beats.

Wingard: That’s what a lot of action is missing nowadays. You don’t have enough close-ups of characters, getting their reactions to what is going on. We had a lot of fun when Dan gets shot in the middle of a shootout, and he acts just totally annoyed by it.

Stevens: It’s more of an inconvenience than an injury.

Wingard: I always loved that in the Indiana Jones movies. Those close ups of Harrison Ford looking terrified at his impending doom in those little moments really sell the action more than the spectacle does. I have a lot of big problems with major action films—you look at the Iron Man movies—they feel like these well-orchestrated [computer graphic] animatics that have been brought to reality. But they’re so overly complicated, I just don’t connect with them at all.

Barrett: It never feels like anything’s really at stake.

The GuestYou’ve mentioned taking an ironic approach to violence. How do you differentiate between violence in the service of horror versus heroism?

Barrett: I think that’s one of the themes of The Guest. Initially when you see Dan’s character be violent, it’s giving authority figures and bullies their comeuppance.

Stevens: It’s in the service of good.

Barrett: It’s very movie-likable violence; it’s very entertaining violence. But some of the violence later in the film is much darker in tone. We wanted to show a violent character and that his behavior later in the movie, when he is killing characters you like as opposed to characters you dislike, is entirely consistent from the start. For David, it’s the same motivations.

Stevens: It’s context and also the vocabulary of violence and the different application of it. We say yes it’s fine to get revenge on high-school bullies, but there are things that happen later in the movie that really stretch the audience’s sympathies in quite an interesting and challenging way.

Barrett: That’s the idea; to show the consequences of violence, even in a heightened, ridiculous way. There’s a humor to it, but the humor comes from pathos, and we needed to play that correctly. We show that Dan’s character is so formidable and so powerful… For example, I’ve always liked that in The Terminator, Arnold Schwarzenegger is so much more intimidating than Linda Hamilton in that movie, and he still is using this massive firearm against her, and it feels almost cruel and terrifying.

I’m so tired of people cheering a “cool” death.

Wingard: That’s just fan service pandering. It goes beyond just the deaths; I don’t like the idea of pandering to your audience in general. Everything should be based on story and characters, it should never be based on cool ideas and concepts. That comes later; that’s what you fit in after you’ve structured everything correctly. And that’s what separates a parody from a real movie.

The Skeleton Twins: (Sad) Funny Bones

hr_The_Skeleton_Twins_1The Skeleton Twins feels so clichéd “indie” that it almost folds over into meta. That’s not entirely a bad thing—at least we’ve reached the point where delicately essayed indie-feelin’ films about human people not wearing superhero costumes or trying to blow each other up are created and appreciated often enough to be criticized for familiar sameness.

As directed by Craig Johnson from a script he co-wrote with Mark Heyman, the hyped hook for the quirky dram-com The Skeleton Twins (there’s much more dram than com) is that it reunites former SNL cast mates Kristen Wiig and Bill Hader as formerly estranged twins Maggie and Milo—except now the comic actors are super-mopey instead of super-funny!

Sorry, that came off much more dismissive than I intended. Fact is, Wiig and Hader are both terrific in The Skeleton Twins, as are Luke Wilson and Ty Burrell as their supporting, “complicated” love interests. The film itself chronicles the melan-comic emotional mishaps that befall Maggie and Milo as they’re forced back together in adulthood by their mutual suicidal tendencies, and it’s all plenty enjoyable in a nice rainy-afternoon-with-Morrissey way.

Skeleton-Twins-WiigWiig has proven her dramedy chops before in films like All Good Things, Friends With Kids, and even the more emotionally honest bits of Bridesmaids. Hell, her 2012 SNL farewell, serenaded with “Ruby Tuesday” by Mick Jagger, is one of the lovelier bittersweet moments in the show’s recent history. If anything, Skeleton Twins reminds you that Wiig’s eyes’ default setting is a sad and weary skepticism—like many Wiig characters both comic and dramatic, Maggie’s long since seen through the “happy princess” lies of real life, but chooses to cling to them out of an emotional survival instinct.

So this time it’s Hader who’s getting the big “who knew he could really act?!” huzzahs. I suppose we’re still at the point—at least in the land of this sort of semi-lazy Indie film—where the gayness of gay characters is considered a “character trait.” Hader will no doubt score Oscar-buzz points for playing the sassy, self-deprecating, self-loathing complexities of Milo’s flamboyant, sometimes flailing homosexuality. (If a little Stefon outrageousness occasionally slips through, Hader deftly weaves the camp into the character.)

theskeletontwins1But under all the irony, the achievement of his performance is in playing a complicated human being opposite Wiig’s equally complicated straight human being. Because American pop culture primarily feels, accurately or not, that depression is best defined through romantic failings, The Skeleton Twins spends much of its narrative time and energy on Maggie and Milo’s broken and dysfunctional romantic relationships. Maggie serially self-shames by cheating on her loving, doting dolt of a husband (Wilson); and soon after Milo’s melodramatic, self-pitying cry-for-help suicide attempt, he revisits a former high-school English teacher (Burrell) who he was involved with as a teen.

But it’s in the brother-sister scenes between Maggie and Milo that the film finds its best moments and its strongest emotional beats, showing how, as youth, Maggie and Milo developed a symbiotic survival system in the wake of their father’s own suicide. Most of that survival system centers on making each other laugh, as evidenced in scenes of them collapsing in mutual giggles while snorting nitrous or of Milo coaxing Maggie into joining him in lip-synching to Starship’s super-cheese Mannequin theme “Nothing’s Going to Stop Us Now.”

140911_MOV_SkeletonTwins.jpg.CROP.promo-mediumlargeThat last bit is probably the film’s most memorable, not just for the joyous silliness it (cheaply) milks out of stubborn sadness, but because if as a culture we can agree on little else, we still share a not-so-ironic love of ridiculous ‘80s pop anthems. (The scene also gives Wiig a near-transcendently sweet moment as Maggie first resists then finally, gloriously gives into Milo’s relentlessly earnest stupidity.) But it also helps us see how the siblings helped each other built walls of snarky humor around their pain and how fragile and weak both of them are when those walls crumble.

The problem with The Skeleton Twins is that all that sweetness and sadness and those nicely essayed performances are served up in a formulaic script that never met a modern Indie-film cliché it didn’t embrace and render trite. With quirky emotional awkwardness as its driving aesthetic, the film paints its themes with a mighty broad brush. For example, given that their father killed himself jumping off a bridge, the film’s use of water and skeleton metaphors would elicit eye rolls from a seventh-grade Language Arts class. (Whenever someone’s really upset they break an empty aquarium, leaving goldfish to literally die out of water.)

The-Skeleton-Twins-bill-hader-kristen-wiig-3As good as the film is at showing how Maggie and Milo survived by stitching their broken selves together with morbid, self-cutting humor, it has little genuine or insightful to say about the actual broken parts. Too often substituting cliché for emotional complexity, The Skeleton Twins leaves Wiig and Hader to spin their characters’ darker struggles from whole cloth. The actors succeed to an admirable degree, but ultimately the film seems to use suicidal depression as a plot device, an expression of frustration rather than honestly exploring the subject.

Like the skeletons of its title (and its persistent visual motif), the film feels like a collection of parts—even if several are meaty ones for its actors.

Interview: Love is Strange Writer-director Ira Sachs

Ira+Sachs+Love+Strange+Portraits+2014+Sundance+egz9I3z81frlLOVE-IS-STRANGE-final-smallAt first blush, Love is Strange, independent writer and director Ira Sachs’ sixth feature, feels Woody-Allen familiar:

Gentle piano music plays; a nattily dressed couple (Alfred Molina’s George and John Lithgow’s Ben) lovingly bicker; and diverse but attractive characters gather to sing songs in a perfectly appointed New York apartment.

But Love is Strange quickly reveals itself to be so much more than those initial, surface impressions, becoming a beautifully observed and nuanced character study that weaves its way honestly and often humorously around issues of love, marriage, and family.

Soon after George and Ben are finally legally married after 40 years of partnered “marriage,” their cozy life together is upended by the institutional narrow-mindedness of George’s employer (a Catholic prep school) and the vicious financial realities of NYC rent.

Unable to find new, affordable housing together, George is stuck on a neighbor’s couch while Ben moves in with his nephew’s family (Darren E. Burrows, Marisa Tomei, and Charlie Tahan). As George struggles to find quiet and sleep amid hard-partying younger couples, Ben’s presence further upsets his nephew’s already strained marriage and his grand-nephew’s adolescent angst over love and sex.

I spoke with Ira Sachs a few weeks ago about Love is Strange.

Love is Strange opens Friday, August 29 at select theaters.

__________

love-is-strange_612x380The film pleasantly surprised me by going in different thematic directions than I anticipated. Did you purposefully set out to defy the audience’s narrative expectations?

Ira Sachs: No. My job is to be a good storyteller. I’m always interested in good characters, good drama, and humor—stuff about the way we live intimately with each other.

My modus operandi is when you make a film you’re actually on some level a personal historian–you’re documenting something. You want to get the details right and you want to be sensitive and timely. More deeply, I hope it’s about things that are very personal to an audience.

It’s about both realistic and idealistic notions of love, but also about love and relationships between friends and family members.

Sachs: “Love” is a very big word. I started writing this in the spring of 2012 with my co-writer Mauricio Zacharias. At the time I was moving from living alone in an apartment to living with my husband, our two kids, the kids’ mother, and occasional visiting family members. So I was in a perfect spot to consider the ways in which love and family intertwine within a household.

9To me, the film is very much a multi-generational story about love from a variety of perspectives. You have this older couple, Alfred and John, and you have Marisa Tomei, who is very much a woman in the middle of her life trying to figure out what she is allowed and what she should expect in terms of herself and her relationships, and then you have this kid, Joey played by Charlie Tahan, who is experiencing love for the very first time. So I think people find different points of identification in this film that touch them in different ways.

Given the change in your living situation while writing it, are the sections with Marisa Tomei’s character trying to write with Ben always around based on semi-autobiographical frustrations?

Sachs: Certainly, but Marisa talked to two friends of mine who are novelists but also mothers and wives, and who are trying to keep that creative balance. I think balance is something you struggle with. What was nice and lucky for me was to have these actors who are also sometimes comic actors, so they had skills other actors who might have played these roles may not have had. It’s to the advantage of the film that these people see the humor in life.

That’s the beauty of the film—there’s a buoyancy to the performances that keeps it from getting pulled down into melodrama.

LOVE-IS-STRANGESachs: That’s a good word, buoyancy. It helps to create an atmosphere. I don’t actually rehearse my actors before we start shooting. I want to create theater, so it’s strategically helpful to have them know their lines and the script, but then at the same time allow a level of emotional improvisational happening on set that leads to unexpected reactions.

It’s such a character-driven film—I was impressed by how Ben and George are such very different people. Often in film, long-married couples get blandly written as “twins,” two mirror halves of the marriage, with few deep emotional differences.

Sachs: The last pass of the script really refined the differences between these two characters. George is more of the caretaker while Ben is less aware of stuff. There is a kind of airy quality to Ben—his head is in the clouds, but he’s also super connected to his work and creating art. We refined these elements in that process.

And then you add in Alfred and John who are very different people. The film tries to pay attention to their differences while looking at what they’ve created historically with each other over a 40-year marriage, which is really what the film is centered on–it’s the story of marriage; not the act, but the thing itself. As John says, it’s a film with one lead: the marriage.

George is more inward and comfortable in quiet, solitude, where Ben is social and chatty.

love-is-strange-john-lithgow-600x400Sachs: But Ben’s also self-aware, which is a really nice quality. In certain ways he’s seemingly unaware, but what Lithgow reveals is that Ben’s actually paying really close attention.

A lot of us do that in terms of how we look at our families, particularly our parents. We sometimes see them as characters that are not actually the centers of their own marriages. As a parent and a child, it’s very hard for any of us to accept that other people are writing their own stories–we think they’re part of our stories.

At one point, George warns a music student of over-romanticizing an already Romantic piece. Did you deliberately try to avoid romantic and “Romantic” tropes in the film?

Sachs: I just try to be attentive to how the world is and what I observe in human relationships. At the same time, it’s cinema and you want to make something that’s exceptional in a creative way. My goal is that of the neo-realists: to make the ordinary extraordinary. There’s something very epic about all our lives, but you need to channel that in a very detailed way. It’s done by being accurate and precise with your tools–you can do both those things; create something that is very real but also has beauty.

Without giving anything away, I just love the film’s closing shot—that’s a place where you did seem to nicely tip over into a more epic, larger-than-life idealistic statement.

molina21f-2-webSachs: I really love films that have an open quality. Music has that quality, which is why I chose Chopin for the score. It’s an art that tells you enough but not too much. You want the conclusion to be something the audience can take with them and reflect on. That last moment of the film is a point of reflection.

It’s funny, there’s a story about that final scene. I had hired a girl who said she could skateboard for that shot, but when she got to the set that day, it was clear she couldn’t. And we were standing on the street trying to work this out when I saw a pony-tail go by really fast on a skateboard.

I pointed her out to our producer Jay Van Hoy, and he ran after her, followed her for three blocks in the West Village, caught up with her as she was going down the stairs to the subway, and tapped her on the shoulder and said, “Hey, you wanna be in a movie?” That’s the girl in the film. That’s the kind of accident you hope for when making a movie, especially in New York, where you’re trying to capture the ineffable and magical.

It’s also a nifty metaphor for love and how it ignores any rational plans.

Sachs: You have to know yourself very well to take advantage of those shifts. That’s something I really admire about Ben and George. I think I understand that more personally in my life now then I did the past 30 years. By knowing who I am, I have a better sense of how to love

embed-ira-sachs-love-is-strangeThat’s let me create a movie that has a real optimism about it and about being open to other people, to each other, and to connecting in deep ways. That’s a really impressive way to live your life; to have both humility and confidence. That’s what makes people want to be around Ben and George.

There’s also that sense of the idea of love—and all its complexity—being passed to the next generation. There’s a sense of education, of George and Ben teaching through example.

Sachs: Yes, to me the film is about education. We all are teaching somebody something. What do we impart as institutions, as educators, as parents, as lovers, as part of a family? That collective education is partly what the film is about.

“While all the other arts were born naked, [film], the youngest, has been born fully-clothed. It can say everything before it has anything to say. It is as if the savage tribe, instead of finding two bars of iron to play with, had found scattering the seashore fiddles, flutes, saxophones, trumpets, grand pianos by Erhard and Bechstein, and had begun with incredible energy, but without knowing a note of music, to hammer and thump upon them all at the same time.”

--Virginia Woolf
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